A Call To The Remnant

Scottish Warriors for Christ- http://www.facebook.com/acalltotheremnant

Hyper Grace?

Posted by appolus on May 20, 2013

I went along this Sunday to a service where I knew the preacher was and has been preaching on what we would call ” hyper grace.” It is always good to hear first hand and living in Kansas, we have every kind of church here so one can check out these teaching’s for one’s self. Listening to the sermon, I was reminded of an analogy given by Tozer I believe. He talked about a man of God who loved God and studied His Word all of his life and mined the depths of it and always pursued a deeper more intimate walk with the Lord. Near his death in old age, he proclaimed that the more he knew about God, the less he knew about God. Just how vast and ultimately unknowable He was to us mere mortals in this flesh, although He fills our minds and our hearts and spirits to their capacity. Now he longed to stand before God in his raised incorruptible body so that he could know as he is known. This, Tozer suggested, was a good servant. Now, along comes a 18 year old, listens to the old man’s dying words, and proclaims that since God is ultimately not able to be fully known in this flesh, then there is no point in studying His Word so much and pursuing a deeper walk. You see the point, they can both come to the same conclusion, but one is a good and humble servant and the other is a lazy servant who presumes upon God. I would suggest that one pleases God, and the other does not. Not unlike Cain and Abel.

We know that God is a rewarder of those who diligently seeks Him. Hyper grace people would not understand that. They would suggest that the pursuit was a waste and that you already had it all so why waste your time. The very pursuit would be classified as works and legalistic. This is the deadly poisonous end results of this teaching. For sin indeed separates us from His presence, it does not nullify a genuine saint from his salvation. Yet, what use is a saint to the world who presumes upon God, refuses to acknowledge a need to repent and walks not in the presence of God? I am sorry for this analogy but this preacher spoke about grace the same way as I have heard certain people over the years talk about the latest pyramid, get rich get in now scheme. Many of you have probably noticed that it is the same kinds of personalities who constantly fall prey to these schemes. It’s just the latest thing to them.

In God there is balance. I know that there is the opposite end of the hyper grace spectrum and it is equally wicked in it’s distortion of basic Biblical truth. The other end proclaims themselves to be miserable wretched sinners , vile worms, who are only separated from the wicked world by a legal transaction known as justification. They beat themselves, so to speak , and they end up living a Romans 7 life and are proud of it. They compete against each other to see who is the most vilest in their self-condemnation and they make that the measure of their ” humility.” Oh Lord forgive all those who allow themselves to fall into these schemes of the enemy.

Here is what I know. I will not let false teachers rob me of the Truth. I am a blood bought, redeemed child of the Living God. My heavenly Father loves me with a love that the human mind cannot even perceive. That Love, that salvation rocked my world and took me from the gates of Hell to the throne room of God. I was transformed into a new creature in Christ. I was taken from a literal darkness into His marvelous light. I was released from a prison of sin and freed to walk in the beauty of His holiness. His love for me restored my broken spirit and He gave me worth. His thoughts towards me are more numerous than the sands of the sea. I will wait upon Him, I will pursue Him, I will abide in Him, I will come before His throne and ask my precious Father in heaven to forgive me and I have never been turned away. In fact His love and His mercy and His grace is a constantly affirming beautiful thing and it keeps me wholly dependent upon my Lord. Without Him I would be nothing. He is everything. Now brothers and sisters, that is simply the truth and it is the word of God. I stand not only upon that Word but the reality of it lived out.

I thank the Lord that a prodigal child can look around, realize that he is in a pig sty, say to himself ” I will get up go to my Father’s house.” He does not look around and stay in the pig sty merely because he is His father’s son. Oh Christian, we have an advocate before the throne. There has been a way made for us to come to that place.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

21 Responses to “Hyper Grace?”

  1. W.E. Smith said

    My dear brother, there is a reason stores put the candy on the lower shelf – that is where the kiddies can see them. Satan does nothing less. These blind leaders of the blind will soon be vomited out of His mouth my brother. I was with the brothers I get together with, and one said he just read a book, and nowhere in the New Testament believers ever required to repent. As he said this (and I do love this brother), my mind raced through all of the places, including the letters to the churches in Revelation, where this is precisely the case. “I know your works…. and “I have this against you….”

    These children of Jezebel (the protestant denominations and their offshoots, yes even and especially the non-denominational, seeker friendly ones) they are so desperate aren’t they, to get converts, members, numbers on the roll, by any means possible. And they know nothing of position (stand) and possession (walk). We were brought out of Egypt (sin and death) so that we might possess the land (Christ in His fullness).

    Once saved always saved, they preach. Oh it sounds so glorious doesn’t it. He has done it all so that you can live exactly as you are in your little perverted american dream, plastic house with a safe little church school for you children. All the while engaged in spiritual fornication of the rudest kind.

    This makes me angry my brother, very angry – because they have not seen Him, they have not found Him and been found by Him in the deep places. They have not touched the Father’s heart, and drank of the new wine that was spilled from His veins.

    Cheap grace is no grace at all my brother! And it was never intended that it would serve to pander to modern man’s low self-esteem and assorted psychological maladies. This is as effeminate a doctrine as I have ever encountered, and it is time we started having some real men with spiritual backbone in the pulpit, who are not afraid to tell it like it is, to preach Christ crucified and a revulsion to sin, especially unbelief which the worst of them all.

    Whatever is not of faith is sin! Whenever we walk by sight, by what we think, it misses is the mark. Whatever is not Christ will be violently removed from the creation. Don’t take my word for it – READ YOUR BIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Dear saints – if you are in such a church, sitting routinely under such false an delusional teaching, I have one word for you, and I dare say boldly this is from the Lord Himself -

    RUN!

    Judgment has started with the house of God, and guilt by association is no excuse. Listen to the Spirit and do whatever He tells you.

    And If you have sinned (and yes you have), repent, return to the Lord. If you have dirtied your garments only the blood of the Lamb will cleanse you. If you are in the pigsty, then crawl out and then back home to the Father’s grace and mercy. He does love you and He will receive you back home.

    He with the eyes of fire looks upon your very heart – so even if you have not yet been convicted of missing the mark, He already knows. Pride, lust, worldliness, unbelief…. where is your heart right at this very moment.

    “I know your works….” says the Glorious one!

    Finally we have an example of a people who continued to live in sin and to attach themselves to harlots after being saved – Israel! And what became of them I wonder?

    • appolus said

      Indeed brother, we live in dangerous days where doctrines are like sales gimmicks. It’s an attempt to presume upon God and find the lowest common denominator so that one can continue to live the compromised life. Run indeed, into the arms of God………………….bro Frank

  2. Roman said

    Once again, the greatest misunderstanding of grace.

    Grace is not mercy. Mercy is not grace. We use them interchangeably with disastrous results.

    Grace is simply the power God gives us to accomplish his will. Mercy is the fact he has given us grace. The only way to fight sin is with God’s power. This power is grace, not mercy.

    Once the Western church begins to understand this, then and only then, will we become victorious. Until then, we will continue to be weak and useless for God’s purposes, being filled with worthless “gummi worm” theology.

  3. Johnny said

    I’ve read the term “hyper-grace” for the second time in as many days. What is the salient characteristic that separates it from the message of grace that Paul was given for the Church? You know, the one whereby he wrote that if anyone, even an angel, brought you anything other than that, it was “another gospel” and they themselves were to be considered accursed… such as the “getting it right by doing right” heresy the Galatians had bought into.

    • W.E. Smith said

      Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him…

      Essentially, such purveyors of this godless rubbish negate the last part of this injunction from Paul.

      • Johnny said

        Hmmm… maybe I’ve been living under a rock, but I can’t think of a single person preaching grace who is advocating turning away from Jesus. To the contrary, it’s those who are seeking to live out their faith through works apart from grace who are separated from Christ.

        • appolus said

          Hi Johnny. I guess the problem with what is known as hyper grace is that the notion of needing to do any repenting after salvation is negated. In other words, sins past, present and future have been dealt with by what Jesus did on the Cross therefore there is no need to focus at all on any sin in your life, no need to come before the throne and confess your sins of the day to The Lord, no need to confess your sins one to another. No need to diligently seek after His presence, no need hunger and thirst for what you already have, no need to pursue God in any fashion after salvation because it is all right there. I would argue, that far from being grace, this is what used to be known as cheap grace. Look at the original post, I am arguing for both sides of the coin and in that there is balance. I lose nothing by acknowledging my sin and my need to ask God for forgiveness so that I can walk in His presence and in His power, the power of holiness, holiness being proximity to Jesus, pressing in close, diligently seeking. Jesus told us to draw close to Him and He would draw close to us. The obvious teaching being that if we did not draw close to Him then we would not be close to Him. In Rev 3 He tells us that He stands at the door of the hearts of those who have left their first love. He makes promises to those who overcome. those in that position need to repent and return to their first love. The teachers of hyper grace do not see any need for any Christian to repent and confess any sin because they say that it has all been dealt with at the cross and by the Blood of Jesus. This is a corrupting of Scripture and stands in opposition to the commands found in Scripture of the need to confess ones sin. I hope that explains it a little………. Bro Frank

          • Johnny said

            Brother Frank, I agree with you. True grace teaches us to live godly and unstained by the world, it does not allow for loose living. That said, it also teaches us not to flagellate ourselves if we do sin, but to look to Jesus and ask for the grace to overcome. It’s when we start relying on our own strength, understanding, et. al. that we are truly in trouble.

  4. W.E. Smith said

    The full and perfect end of man is to know (GK: epignosis) Christ, and this is achieved over time be becoming one with Him, by walking in Him, by living and moving and having one’s being in Him. To be attached to Him such that His life, His righteousness, His love becomes our own. We bear fruit (a better word than works and used in the NT to convey the product of one having being attached to the True Vine, the Tree of Life) pleasing to the Holy Father be merely being join in life with His Beloved Son. the Life of the New Creation. He is the Sabbath as fruit is born without labor, without work, without striving perpetually against the curse of sin. This is the gospel, the good news for all of us.

    Now, and please hear this, in one sense the Father when He looks upon us does see He perfect Son, and we are judged according to what He is, what He has done. He has fulfilled the law (which by the way was never done away with, it was merely fulfilled once and for all). This represents our position in Christ in a judicial way. Yet there is also the matter of the old man which is sinful by its very nature. This old man must take up its cross and die over time, such that the Lord Jesus Christ may increase, may grow, mat become the very fullness of our lives. This is the possession, the entering into he fullness of the life of God (Read John’s Gospel which conveys the 7 elements of this eternal life through signs performed).

    Everything not of Christ is SIN for it represents unlikeness to God.

    Our chief aim is to die to ourselves so that He might live in us. To die is gain, to live is Christ said Paul.

    The fruit of Christ, of the Holy Spirit pleases the Father for it moves towards His purpose, which is to create a race of men in His perfect image. The design, the template, the animating principle and seed of that new creation is His Beloved Son. He is the author and finisher, the A to Z of the New Creation.

    Can a born-again believer sin and when he does does it grieve the Father and the Lord?

    Yes and yes.

    Can we grieve the Holy Spirit by our heart and by our actions that are opposed to the righteous working of God?

    Yes.

    Should we repent when when we move away form the Lord in our heart or in our actions?

    The Holy Spirit can answer this as He speaks to our spirit and our conscious.

    What happens over time if a believer stops repenting (or thinking there is no longer a need to return to the Lord, for repent means to return – like the prodigal son), ceases to respond to to the conviction of sin through the Holy Spirit, starts thinking he needs nothing?

    Read what happened to the Laodecian church for an answer – Not good.

    What happens to our love for the Lord over time if we just casually give into passion, lust , pride? Estrangement, as every true child of God knows all too well. And if you don’t feel this deep pain deep in your spirit than I must wonder if you are truly His at all.

    • Johnny said

      I totally agree with everything you wrote. I just want to make sure we agree on how to get there. But first, let me define my understanding of grace: Grace is the power of God that works in us, to accomplish that which we are powerless to perform in our flesh. Things such as believing, forgiving, loving, obeying, etc.

      Jesus did everything that he did on earth by grace. He fulfilled the Law by walking in grace, as a man, without ever stumbling. He said that, “I do nothing, except that which I see the Father do.” Therein lies the clue.

      The only way to walk pleasing to God, is to depend on His power within us. His grace. Oh, we can try, as did the Galatians, to “do it” in our own strength, but all that produces is wood, hay and stubble. It’s only when we die to the boastful pride of life and surrender to God, by believing in the work of Jesus alone, that we start laying up treasure in heaven.

      Rom 9:16 “So then it does not depend on the man who wills or on the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.”

      • appolus said

        And I agree with what you just wrote Johnny. It is, on face value, a subtle lie. For because we know that we can do nothing without the Lord and we have Romans 7 which graphically describes the wretchedness of the religious man trying to work out his salvation by his own works, his own strength, we also know that we do have a part to play. We are not called to be passive, there is movement required on our part, we must move towards the Lord. We indeed have been called to take up our cross daily and die, right there hyper grace folks would have a huge problem. There are refining fires we are called to walk through. There is brokenness that is needed in our lives. There is scourgings spoken of in the Scriptures and we are told not to resist them. It is indeed a working out, we are indeed a work in process, He is indeed taking his hammer and chisel and shaping us into His image. Can the blows be sore? Yes, very sore. If we yield to them we can see the fruit of it in our lives. Our part is the yielding, is the surrender, is the death, we are called to these things. We are called to resist the devil and he would flee. Anyway Johnny, it seems we are all on the same page, God bless you bro………………bro Frank

      • Johnny said

        To add on here… In a nutshell, we either believe that we have it within ourselves to walk pleasing to God by obeying the Bible, or we’ve come into the understanding that Jesus accomplished it all on our behalf, and there’s absolutely nothing we can do to add to it… and we now walk in obedience out of love for Him, not in an attempt to obtain or maintain our salvation.

        • appolus said

          Johnny, did God give the Israelites the promised land ? So, after being given it, did they still have to, by obedience, by faith, posess the land? We have all things in Christ, yet we must walk in obedience and faith if we are to be victorious. What happened after Jericho? What was the problem at AI? These things are a type, a physical manifestation of our present spiritual reality. This is not about losing your salvation or adding to the finished work of Jesus. This is merely a walking out of our faith which was attained by grace which is the finished work of Calvary. …….. Bro Frank

          • W.E. Smith said

            The church today seems to so much emphasize the position (the beginning, the new birth, etc) which is fine, but not so well the possession (what you have described). Yet I dare say one’s position is affirmed, proven even by the possession. How do you know that the mass of legs and hair is a baby kangaroo – well it begins to hop, to act like its progenitor. A baby kangaroo that never learns to hop is not much of a kangaroo at all.

            Does the Lord wish to populate His kingdom with a bunch of babies, more carnal than spiritual? I think not. The Father delights in seeing His Son increased, which is achieved in one sense through the faithful abiding of all those who have been born of Him (the possession, the crossing over from death (Jordan) into Him).

            A good discussion, a timely one. May the Lord bring His truth to light in His people in this hour filled with so much dreadful delusion, deception and distraction. You know brother that I will never mince words, for the time is short, and our Lord never did. He called things as He saw them. We too must not seek the approval of men, We must confess Him openly to the degree He has informed our spirit, and do so with love and boldness. I am glad you are doing this brother; it is breath of fresh air in this hour when so many are bought and paid for.

          • Johnny said

            Frank, I agree with you in the main, but I think we maybe still are not quite there in the details. I hear you clearly when you speak of our responsibility and our need to possess by obedience and faith. I totally agree. My point is, that if we attempt ANY of it apart from grace (God’s power working in and through us), we’ll miss the mark. In the end, that’s why ALL honor and glory go to the Lamb, and none to any other man… it’s ALL His doing.

            So what does this look like when walked out in practical day-to-day life? Jesus said that He did NOTHING that He didn’t see the Father doing. How did he see what the Father was doing? In prayer and quite meditation before the throne of God. And that’s the way we are to live our lives daily. We are to go and sit at Jesus’ feet until we are given the manna (grace) that we need for the day. It could be an instruction (command), an encouraging word, a reproof, etc. The point is, until we are given fresh manna for the day, ANY attempt on our part apart from it, will result in us striving in our own strength apart from His. And don’t think we can run on what we were given yesterday… remember Israel?… the manna has to be fresh, gathered daily, else we eat maggots. Living this way, we finally come to know the reality of, “Cease striving and know that I am God.”

  5. W.E. Smith said

    Grace and truth came through (in) Jesus Christ. So technically, He is the full expression, the full manifestation of the grace (unmerited pardon) of God among men. This grace came down, it was offered to us, for all those willing to accept Him. The law came through Moses, but grace and truth came in Christ!

    Now regarding fruit, my apple trees are just started to bear fruit. I did nothing. The mere fact that they are apple trees, rooted in the soil means that each spring they flower, bud and then bear fruit. This is an act of nature and it is also a parable for all of us. Now the Word speaks much of fruit and its cultivation. Although all happens quite naturally and effortlessly, this world is still in a cursed and fallen state. There are, alas, pests (fruit flies, birds, worms, disease etc) that do everything they can to prevent the fruit from coming forth in its fullness and increase. I must cultivate, prune, spray, etc to ensure that this fruit comes forth to ripeness and life (fruit is never an end in itself, it gives life). Spiritual fruit, and its increase in us, requires much attention, much cultivation (anyone who says otherwise knows nothing about the triune enemies of all fruit – the flesh, the world and the devil). Not that we bring forth the fruit – this occurs quite naturally out of Christ in us, but the enemy has other designs, and the whole world has gone after him (“An enemy has done this”). It is the Father’s intention to fill all of this creation with His Son, such that He becomes the “all in all.”

    It is fruit that God is after. Not barren branches. No leaves and much shade. Fruit out of the Tree of Life that is the Christ!

    Although we do nothing to render this fruit (other than believe), (please hear this) we can do much to prevent or limit its increase. Hardness of heart, self-will, an unrepentant spirit, worldliness, carnality, foolishness, blindly following false teachers and teachers, being content with milk when the Lord wants to bring us to meat. Israel is a perfect example, a barren fig tree planted by the Lord but not bearing any fruit. What happened to this tree I wonder? Why, despite so much grace poured out to them over centuries, was there no fruit?

    We are not be mindless drones or imitations of Jesus Christ. We are to be joined with him in willful union and love. He will only increase to the measure and proportion that we sacrifice ourselves, and take up our cross (no we can never carry His cross, please do not mistake what I am saying here) and follow Him.

    As grace-borne children of God we are not by any means “sinners in the hands of an angry God”, but we are fully expected to cooperate with the husbandman as He brings forth ever-increasing fruit unto righteousness (note: wherever you see this word in the bible replace it mentally with Christ Jesus) in us.

    Sin is to miss the mark. The mark is Christ. Anything less than the mark is sin. He is the Tree of Life in the garden of God. Yet there are serpents in this garden, and temptations, and all manner of perils in the spirit. This is why we have the word and gift of exhortation, to help the saints to be careful, wise, cautious, etc. When we are bitten, we return to the Lord, for healing, grace, peace. It is the Father’s good pleasure through His Beloved Son, the Lamb of God, to restore us, to teach us, to being us deeper into Himself and His Holiness and Glory. Amen.

  6. appolus said

    Johnny, you and I are both on the exact same page as to what you wrote in your last comment, not only is that what I read in Scripture but it has also been what I have discovered in my own walk. I think the problem lies when you ” get out there.” Meaning, if you travel in Christendom, you will see people taking advantage of certain teachings. The prosperity Gospel is a great example of that. Where you take the basic truth of sowing and reaping, you turn it into a life style to be manipulated and you create something that people identify themselves with and worship. Unfortunately we live in a watered down Gospel generation and unless it is spelled out correctly, people and the flesh will take the path of least resistance and it does not seem to matter to those who prosper from the Gospel, meaning those who make their livings from it and need the numbers and need to be ” successful.” I am thinking of Joel Olsteen and others who have built kingdoms out of watered down truths, sold to the masses who are constantly looking on how to improve their lives here on earth and pursue happiness. Our pursuit is of God along the narrow path of trials and tribulations and along this path we find life and we find it more abundantly, life in Christ, life in the Kingdom that was and is and is to come, life in the eternals. ………………….bro Frank

  7. Barbara said

    I am new here…today, in fact, and I have read all your posts on this..you and Johnny. I have to say that I do not understand Johnny’s argument, if I may use that word. Thank you for allowing me to say this…from my viewpoint after reading all the posts on this topic of “Hyper Grace.”

  8. Barbara said

    As I read all that both you and Appolus posted, it seemed to me that you pretty much were in agreement with each other, yet I didn’t sense that you realized this.

  9. Pieter said

    QUOTE
    Dear saints – if you are in such a church, sitting routinely under such false an delusional teaching, I have one word for you, and I dare say boldly this is from the Lord Himself -

    RUN!

    Judgment has started with the house of God, and guilt by association is no excuse. Listen to the Spirit and do whatever He tells you.
    UNQUOTE

    Positively the best advice I have ever heard and in compliance with Jer 7 and Rev 18.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

 
Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 310 other followers

%d bloggers like this: